MyDD :: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Economy

How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Economy

by Lakrosse, Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:09:39 PM EST

So everyone knows that some have chosen to make diaries bashing Bill Clinton's economy, either crediting "lies" that never happened, or crediting only the dot-com bubble, which is absolutely specious. The economy under Bill Clinton did well because he took the steps needed to end the deficit which was to raise taxes on the rich big time: this in turn fixed up the bond markets which in turned fueled the economic boom we knew back then. Ever Republican in both houses voted against it. Unfortunately for them, the economy took off, and the budget deficit died. Bill Clinton did that by telling the truth to the American people how tax cuts for the rich were why the deficit was so high and the economy bad.

Bill Clinton also fixed the economy by signing the Family Medical Leave Act, which made it possible for women to take leave while they took care of their child, he also raised the earned income tax credit. This in turn lifted people out of poverty, which fell in every demographic group in terms of race and gender. The dot-com boom only helped the rich. It didn't change the lives of most of the working Americans who went out of poverty under President Clinton.

More countries chose to invest in us due to the deficit Clinton ended. 22 million new jobs because they knew we wouldn't go under like we would have under Bush Sr. had he got another term. Was he a free trader? YES he was, but eveyr living former President supported NAFTA too, and Bush I negotiated it. Welfare reform got those people on welfare into jobs, ending welfare as we knew it, making welfare what it was always meant to be: a second chance, not a way of life. It was indeed Bill Clinton's truths which fueled the economy of the '90's. I hope the radical Kos-like Clinton haters get that.

Tags: Bill Clinton, last two term Dem since FDR, honor (all tags)

Permalink :: 89 Comments :: Post a Comment

tip jar (2.00 / 12)

tip jar this diary right here

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:10:08 PM EST

Diamond Jay why don't you use your real handle? (1.75 / 4)

Lose the last line and I'll rec.

I think if you join both diaries on the subject you'll be closer to the truth.

I'm a big Bill Clinton fan and didn't understand the point of the earlier diary but this one isn't the greatest piece of work either.

The primary is over and haters from both sides should move on.

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!

by spacemanspiff on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lovin' your sig (none / 0)

... I wanted to have a nice rant, on something that I hate, which is misleading statistics. Because the OP (Nancy) decided to ignore me, I made it into a diary. Further commentary on this diary also exists in a separate diary (am I on a roll or what?). Not that there's much to quibble about with this diary, other than lack of cited sources, and ten-year-old-disproved-research-being cited as fact.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:01:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haters who damage the Dem's reputation (none / 0)

Should apologize to the rest of us, then we'll move on.

Using right wing lies against fellow Dems is crossing the line and should not be tolerated among Democrats.

by Betsy McCall on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tip jar (2.00 / 1)

Pardon me, but what does the tip jar mean?

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His problem (2.00 / 0)

He let personal problems of his own making deride his Presidency. What started out at the beginning, a Democratic President with a democratic Congress was overall wasted by Clinton, he could have done so much more. Health care got politicized instead of worked out, and we still suffer those consequences today. I think he was a good overall President, but he wasted so much potential.

"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"

by Brandon on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His problem (2.00 / 4)

His health care plan was shot down by the insurance industry and the Republicans. The problem wasn't with either Clinton.

And, his "personal issues" were not of his own making. Sure, he fooled around in the WH, but it was an illegitimate Republican witchhunt that made it public.

Frankly, I think you have it exactly wrong--he had very little potential given the conservative movement, and he did remarkably well despite it.

by slynch on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His problem (none / 0)

Just saw this - Thank you a voice of reason!!!

by jrsygrl on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmmmmm. (2.00 / 4)

Just think about what Bill could have done if we had had his back.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:14:56 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (none / 0)

Without subsidized childcare..welfare to jobs was and remains a myth...

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:17:26 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (2.00 / 1)

not true at all. I agree that we need subsidized childcare, but it is simply false to claim that welfare change under Clinton did not move some from welfare to work--it did.

by slynch on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's (2.00 / 2)

How dare you trash Bill Clinton. Oh wait! Your diary PRAISED Bill Clinton's presidency.
I get so confused about who's up and who's down on this site.
rec'd.

Purity! Or else!

by ChitownDenny on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:20:18 PM EST

this is very new (none / 0)

saying something nice about Bill Clinton. Its almost considered evil on the blogosphere. If this is evil, I don't wanna be holy.

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is very new (2.00 / 1)

Why do you keep bringing up that people are unfairly attacking Bill Clinton? We have moved on-Bill was a great president (certainly not the greatest-I for one did NO better under his presidency but that's just me) but he made some gaffes campaigning for Hillary and he was taken down for it. There is nothing unfair about that at all. He seems to have no problem attacking Obama (like a little kid I might add) and acting quite petulant over the fact that he and Hillary did not get their way. Whatever...he can now continue flying around the world in Burkle's private jets, doing his good works and we're all better for it.
I think most people have better things to think about than how rotten Bill Clinton has been - he's over.

by mariannie on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is very new (2.00 / 1)

Please document the gaffes you state Bill Clinton made campaigning for Hillary, and be sure to avoid MSM spin when doing so.

Purity! Or else!

by ChitownDenny on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I seem to recall him spending (none / 0)

over an hour lecturing about his legacy to a bunch of high school students, instead of mentioning Hillary at all.

That's just dumb.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I generally say nice things about Bill (none / 0)

... in fact, I'ma gonna write a nice diary about him RIGHT NOW! So there.

nyaah nyaah.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:03:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, the boom let Bill C. pay down the deficit (2.00 / 4)

"The dot-com boom only helped the rich."

Tell that to the THOUSANDS of workers at Intel, Microsoft, Dell....

Tell that to all of us whose houses SHOT UP in value as Seattle became a destination place, thanks to Amazon and all the companies sprung from MS.

Tell it to me, cause all the middle class taxes I paid were due to the Dot.Com boom.

Tell that to my best friends, who came up here so the wife could work at Boeing, and her husband answered a job ad for a little software start-up in Redmond...Interviewed by some crazy guy name Ballmer? (Talk about blind luck. He almost decided to pass on that ad, and go to the established company!!!!)

I was just at their house on the lake yesterday, pretty nice for a couple of poor kids from central California. I think the dot com boom surely helped them, and yes, they're rich now?

No, the Dot.com boom MADE people rich, AND those tax revenues paid by us rich and not so rich (like me) HELPED Bill Clinton balance the budget.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:28:32 PM EST

those were not the only jobs in America (none / 0)

you know. There are many more industries and jobs than computers. You just can't stomach crediting Clinton for anything because he wasn't this radical firebrand like you hoped Obama would be. Also, california isn't the only state. Jobs were gained from Idaho to Vermont.

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: those were not the only jobs in America (2.00 / 1)

"You just can't stomach crediting Clinton for anything because he wasn't this radical firebrand like you hoped Obama would be."

WTF are you talking about?

You know nothing about me?

I voted for Bill Clinton twice, my Ex brought up all the money I gave to Move On during the Monica wars in the divorce.

How much did YOU contribute to the Bill Clinton Presidential campaign?

I maxed out both times, so take it your bitter anger about Hillary's lose and go cry yourself a river!

"Also, california isn't the only state."

Jesus, do you know ANYTHING about the Dot-com boom ?

California?

Microsoft and Amazon are in Seattle, Dell is in Texas

I visited Intel and Texas Instruments and Analog and Micron facilities in Texas, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Oregon, Arizona....

Ever hear of Research Triangle down in Carolina, or Tech Corridor up in Mass?

The Tech boom was a nation-wide phenomenon.

Take it out of the economy in the era, and Bill Clinton's tax revenues flat-line.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

take his tax hikes out (none / 0)

and the revenues don't even materialize. If Bush I's taxes had been kept, the CEO's would have gotten even richer than they did and the government would not have taken in enough to get a surplus or even get close.

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WashStateBlue loves question marks? (1.50 / 2)

Only questions should end in question marks? No sentence in this comment is a question?

Maybe this punctuation tick derives from a speech pattern popular among younger people, Generation X Generaion Y and Millenials? A pattern in which non-question statements rise in pitch at the end, as if they were questions?

I mean nothing personal WashStateBlue and do not intend to pick on you? But the question marks are driving me crazy?

by catfish2 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 07:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WashStateBlue loves question marks? (2.00 / 0)

I got five bucks says I'm within 5 years of your age, if not older.

I also am typing about over 150 words per minute, so I don't care the much about punctuation?

Of course, I'm fricking crazy as a loon, but have you looked at how many words and hours YOU have spent on just one poltical blog in the last 6 months.

Pot, kettle, black.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 07:49:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm crazy too. And probably close to your age? (none / 0)

I'm not friends with anybody unless they're a little bit crazy?

by catfish2 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mayne your keyboard (none / 0)

placed the '?' close to the '.'

by catfish2 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WashStateBlue loves question marks? (none / 0)

I type 151 fool!!!

Yarrr!!!

:) Just having fun

by Xris on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WashStateBlue loves question marks? (none / 0)

Are you going to self-implode when Barky becomes president? Are you going ask for a recount on Nov. 5th when Bam Bam wins the most electoral votes over your candidate? On to a serious question: Are you ever going to provide interesting content on this site or are you going to just continue taking steaming dumps in every thread and acting like a raging asshole in order to disrupt sincere discourse?

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 07:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WashStateBlue loves question marks? (none / 0)

So, besides the fact I am probably as old or older then you, seems like you have an axe to grind with the millenials.

It's not like we boomers did such a bang-up job of it?

They're a different crew, I will admit, got 4 of them working for me.

Still, we had better start trusting them, because they will be driving the ship soon enough.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WashStateBlue loves question marks? (2.00 / 1)

ha! I have to agree? I like a lot of what Washblue says (some I don't), but the question marks drive me nuts.

by slynch on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, the boom let Bill C. pay down the deficit (none / 0)

This is just silly. Sure there were thousands of people who either did well or made out like bandits during the dot com bubble, and more power to them. No one denies that. But the fact is, it was of no help at all to the millions of average American citizens.

No Way. No How. No McCain.

by Denny Crane on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, the boom let Bill C. pay down the deficit (2.00 / 0)

You've got to be kidding?

The tech boom made MILLIONS of US jobs, all the peripheral stuff that went with computers, cell phones, high-speed networks.

Fact is, it was the ONLY US business sector that was not already in a slow decline from the middle of Bill Clinton's Presidency on.

From the Economist:

"One pillar of the late 1990s expansion was the strength of business investment in equipment and software. This category of expenditures captures firms' purchases of computers and other high-tech equipment as well as purchases of more traditional forms of machinery such as industrial and construction equipment, aircraft, and trucks.
However, the largest growth was in the new technology sector and it's impact on traditional business.
The rapid growth of these expenditures provided an unusually strong stimulus to GDP growth in the second half of the last decade. Indeed, technology capital spending is widely regarded as a key contributor to the productivity gains that enabled the economy to grow strongly with little inflation during this period."

Look at any other industry, automotive, old line manufacturing like textiles, ALL were already in decline and would accelerate due to shifting markets overseas.

If you are talking about HOW many people made a fortune in Cisco stock, yeah, I will agree, it's limited to a few.

But, the statement was the Dot.Com boom did NOTHING for the average American, which is just nuts.

I think you all are confusing the crazy stock market ride, and the stock prices, with all the jobs and industries that were created vis a vis mass computerisation of the workplace, highspeed networks and cell phones?

Here's the mental exercise.

Take it all away? Take away Intel and Dell and Cisco and Microsoft and Apple...

POOF!

What is left in the US business sector in the 90s?

GM? GE? Archer Daniels Midlands?

The tech sector was the main growth area for the 90s, in jobs and salaries.

It's effect on the US economy was huge.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:35:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

if you wanna stiff (none / 0)

Bill Clinton of the credit he deserves for ending the deficit, something that Bush Sr. would not have done if re-elected, then be the Republican party's guests. Cutting the deficit had everything to do with that boom. I can find many economists too who'd back me up. Also, the Economist used to be a conservative Republican paper. It was only in 2004 did they begin endorsing Democrats for President.

by Lakrosse on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:41:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if you wanna stiff (2.00 / 0)

I never said Bill Clinton's policies didn't help reduce the deficit.

I totally supported his tax policies, which Bush reversed and have thrown us in this hell hole of an economy

But, he needed the tax revenues of a growing economy to do it.

You started it with the comment way above.

SHOW ME the other sectors in the US economy that boomed during the Clinton era.

You can't, because the Tech sector was it!

The Tech sector provided that increase in tax revenue, and it rippled through the economy.

Where ELSE did the increased tax revenue come from?

And, you can go find LIBERAL economists that also credit the tech sector, you can't just write off the Economist as right wing so that comment is right wing propaganda.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

if he hadn't raised taxes, (none / 0)

the revenues the gov took in woulda been way smaller than under Bush I, regardless of the boom.

by Lakrosse on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if he hadn't raised taxes, (2.00 / 0)

Not rrue, the paydown of the deficit was do in most part to the red hot economy, which Clinton ALSO helped create.

We are splitting hairs here.

I admit, raising taxes on the rich was a key move, and Obama has said he will do the same thing (actually phrased as roll back the bush cuts.)

But, that will NOT be enough to match the Clinton boom.

Which you think I am trashing, but I am not!

Obama needs to raise taxes AND he needs to find a business sector to get hot, the equivalent of what Bill had in Technology.

I am thinking alternative energy will be it, and Obama has spoken at length about super-charging that sector.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:03:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

please, if Obama's term (1.00 / 1)

sees a boom, i'll bet you're the first one to call him the messiah, and even found a new church to him. If Bill Clinton had nothing to do with it, why does Greenspan himself praise Bill extensively for it, and say how important it was for the economy.

by Lakrosse on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:18:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: please, if Obama's term (none / 0)

You two were having a perfectly rational conversation and then you had to go and drop "messiah" bomb.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: please, if Obama's term (2.00 / 1)

It was a pretty good debate up until that point. The messiah line is one of the more inflammatory ones around and h/she drops it like it's nothing and ruins what was until that point a decent conversation screwing the credibility of the argument being made. Sad.

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!

by spacemanspiff on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:38:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: please, if Obama's term (2.00 / 1)

Holy runon sentence Batman! I'm sleepy as hell. To bad I'm stuck in working in this hospital for 3 more hours. Hope the rest of the night is nice and slow.

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!

by spacemanspiff on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL!!! (2.00 / 1)

Typo after typo.

Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!

by spacemanspiff on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: please, if Obama's term (none / 0)

DiamondJay (I think this is his sockpuppet) has a jones out for me, I called him on his comment that "Somehow the Democratic party
needs to find a way to minmize the effect of the black vote" when he made it.

At any rate, if you look at my overall comments, probably THE ONLY poster that give me hide ratings is Lakkrose. Even Catfish2 doesn't abitrarily hide rate me. Pretty sure it's because of old wounds with this diarist, but, something I did stepped on this foot.

If you look at the entire thread, he is imagining somehow I am ripping Bill Clinton.

What I am saying is, You can't claim Bill Clinton was an "Economic Messiah", (which, by the way, if ANYONE is bestoying religous Godhood
on people, it's HE and his worship of the Clintons)unless you see that he was "at the right place at the right time"....

The tech boom pumped MILLIONS into the economy, and created lots of tax revenue.

Some here are confusing the stock market tax bubble with the effect of the tech boom on the economy as a whole?

HELLO? Internet? What are we all communicating on?

Sure, it was around since Darpanet, but the 90s supercharged it.

His claim that Clinton takes cuts and the reduced deficits "Created" the tech boom is ludicrous.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

because Greenspan isn't half the scholar that (none / 0)

Bernanke is? (bonus points if you know Bernanke's specialization! ;=)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:11:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

find me a RECENT paper (none / 0)

child. My research is MORE CURRENT than yours!

(and points towards the infrastructure investment that WashState is talking about)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How to post a diary (2.00 / 2)

Regardless of your message, if you put it one jumbled paragraph it's not going to get through.

If you want to be taken seriously, and "tipped" (impressive, from someone who seemingly hates Kos), then you're done writing, take a breath, hit return a few times. Maybe even cut and paste into Word, do a spell and grammar check, then come back.

If your message is good, it'll be good another 10 minutes in.

John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.

by ihaveseenenough on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:40:53 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's (1.00 / 2)

hmmm
rec'd by
LatinoVoter
Hollede
ChitownDenny

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:45:21 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's (2.00 / 4)

I'm curious. What is the point you're trying to make by cutting and pasting those who rec'd this diary when anyone curious enough could just click on the link at the top right corner of this diary? I'm sure you have a point to make. Just not sure what it is. Can you explain?

Purity! Or else!

by ChitownDenny on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's (2.00 / 2)

psst, chitownDenny, should I be insulted?

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

quite possibly. but you don't seem (none / 0)

the type to TR on a whim, and your diaries look interesting.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:12:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's (2.00 / 2)

He does it with every diary that is in any way positive about the Clintons. Somehow, it seems that if he can disparage the bloggers who 'rec' a dairy, he can 'wreck' the diary.

It's trollish behavior, at best.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes but what isn't?It's become very fashionable.nt (none / 0)

by Tenafly Viper on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:15:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm usually a fidelity (2.00 / 2)

hawk but the one exemption I provide is to Bill Clinton. This guy is the greatest president of my generation and accomplished so much for this country. I hope Obama goes down to Arkansas next week and gives a speech paying homage to the Clintons in a downtown rally in front of Clinton's library.

by Blazers Edge on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 06:47:40 PM EST

that would be nice... (none / 0)

any reason next week?

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:13:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (2.00 / 6)

Nice post.

And if the dems had closed ranks and stood together around him instead of cutting an running when the repugs tried to nail him for something everyone of them was doing on the side it would have been a completely story.

A toast to Bill clinton for not bowing to the repug pressure and just resigning as everyone was urging him to do. Cheers!

by Bornagaindem on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:22:31 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (2.00 / 1)

Indeed. Sam Nunn especially sticks out in mind. He opposed Clinton every chance he got.

No Way. No How. No McCain.

by Denny Crane on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess thats why (2.00 / 1)

Kos touted him as a Veep candidate. Really struck me, because they're the ones who hate Clinton for not cracking gays in the military, even tho NUNN was the reason

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess thats why (2.00 / 1)

Exactly. Amazing how that selective memory works, isn't it? Nunn was always a conservative Democrat, and I'll never understand the affection that some progressives have for him.

No Way. No How. No McCain.

by Denny Crane on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a kossack (none / 0)

and I'd rather see Clark on the ticket. I'd like to see a genius on the ticket for once!

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:14:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ugh (none / 0)

please edit and include some paragraph breaks..

like these (p) ... replace these ( ) with these < > but put a P where the space is.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:43:26 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (2.00 / 0)

I give Clinton a ton of a credit for many things he did economically, but he is not the sole reason the economy was good in the 90's. Economic up turns and down turns are much more complicated than one specific program or a specific tax rate. But the number one thing he did was balance the budget, and I salute him for that.

The Clinton hero worship is just as creepy as the Obama worship I find myself getting involved in sometimes:)

by Xris on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:15:11 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths fueled the 90's Econ (2.00 / 0)

everyone likes to say that (the economy is complex), but I've actually been looking at economic data from Reconstruction to the present, and there's a pretty clear pattern--the economy is better the more control Democrats have over congress and the presidency.

by slynch on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 0)

Why all the redundant diaries about Bill Clinton's economic record -- to help Obama by pointing out how much better Democrats are than Republicans?

by Beren on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:38:36 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 2)

not so much that as to prevent Obama supporters, largely who are Clinton haters from smearing it. Also, what you pointed out helps a lot.

by Lakrosse on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

is there rampant clinton smearing going on in the country lately? Where I work all of the Democrats are back to normal and making fun of McCain. The Obama and Clinton supporters still eat together and still drink beers together after work on fridays. The only difference is that the Republicans seem lost and angry, but I have faith they will start giving me crap soon. When that happens I know the GE is truly here.

But I assuming you are talking about butt heads on the internet. My advice is to just ignore them, lots of people think they are intellectual ninjas when you put a keyboard in front of them.

Have a great 4th!

by Xris on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In other words... (2.00 / 0)

this is a troll diary intended to incite rancor.

by Beren on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Largely (2.00 / 2)

I'd say that folks around these parts have to remind other folks here of the real record of Bill, in order to combat the constant lies and digs thrown at his record.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:49:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's all in your head. (2.00 / 0)

And the primaries are over. Start living in the present instead of brooding on a past that never even was.

by Beren on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:02:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all in your head. (2.00 / 1)

Actually, it's NOT all 'in my head'. Did you not see the other diary telling of Clinton's 'lies' that set up the recession for Bush 2? The other recent diaries about Bill's failings?

That wasn't 'in my head'.

Yes, the primary IS over, so why can't folks let the Clinton years be as they were? Why the constant need to denigrate our only two term POTUS in half a century? Is it in order to 'fix' the political climate so that Obama can be hailed as the greate4st ever?

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'.

We can have two great ones, you know?

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE NO! (none / 0)

and I'm close to taking personal offense at what you wrote above, so bear with me.

Deep Breaths.

Okay.

No, it isn't to make obama the fucking messiah. If he did half as well as FDR, I'd shit a fucking rainbow. It probably won't fucking happen. Clinton had an easy job, Obama will have about the hardest fucking job since FDR, and HIS POWDER IS WET! (due to bernanke, nothing about clinton there!)

I bring up the LIES that were perpetrated by MULTIPLE PRESIDENTS, in order that we can be more chary about our use of gov't statistics. They are OFTEN wrong.

I also bring it up, so that we CAN do something about the LIES. No duck we can or should wish to do about Clinton.

But, hell, I can't respond to someone now?

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:18:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOR FUCK'S SAKE NO! (2.00 / 1)

Calm down.

I didn't use the term "messiah", and I never will, even when others here do. That's ludicrous. I accurately used 'saint' in reference to the GOP reverence of Reagan (not deserved).

But I do believe there is a move afoot to make Obama greater than Bill, and just as they had to destroy Hillary for Obama to become the nominee, they have to destroy Bill's record in order for Obama's to be greater. That's the way I see it. Now you may not be a part of that vague 'they' that I used, but your work in constant denigration of Bill's record is helping 'them'. It's not 'you', it's not 'me', it's not 'anybody' in particular, it's just something I feel from the 'movement' that raised Obama so high, it is there, in the undercurrent, and some folks are willing to admit it and others are not.

Go ahead, trash him (Clinton) all you want, it'll surely get you on the 'wreck' list, there are lots of folks here who still detest the Clintons so much that you could say "Bill helped Osama Ben Laden build his fortune" and folks would clapp incessantly.

I'm done.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thank you (none / 0)

in your other posts, you have come across as significantly more sane than some of your compatriots, and I'm sorry that stuff bled over into my remarks.

I brought up something in direct contrast to something on the rec list. It's the other side, and thus wasn't supposed to be a BC lovefest.

Now I'm going to write that diary on Bill Clinton and Afghanistan.

(I will note that both diaries that I responded to, made it onto the rec list, and neither of mine did. That sounds like sour grapes, doesn't it?)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:35:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thank you (2.00 / 1)

No problem.

I am actually very surprised that yours didn't make the list.

Folks around the blogosphere don't care for the Clintons much these days, in fact, another poster just called Clinton supporters on MyDD "most toxic, most hateful, most rightwing, most racist, and generally shittiest human beings I've ever seen on a liberal blog." and they got mojo for that.

It's hard to be acknowledged as someone who supports Obama's run for the POTUS, yet still supports and admires the Clintons. The PUMA group has made it even worse. I tried telling one of the more prominent of them to stop, here in open commentary, and it got nowhere. I wish folks here could separate the two.

I look forward to your diary about Bill's groundwork in Afghanistan. If only Shrub and Condoleza had listened.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:46:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

that's the thing -- they did listen (none / 0)

Clark's plan was already on the books, and that's how they managed to do the surgical strike take down the Taliban phase. Clark probably didn't put the part about "diplomatic pressure" down, or they ignored it.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 10:59:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

wowsa (none / 0)

give me a link to that. you think i've been caustic so far? rofl. ;-)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:00:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wowsa (2.00 / 1)

It's in the diary now on the rec list about the National Guardian article referencing Destroying Hillary.

I'm still in shock.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:12:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not PC around these parts (1.00 / 1)

to yell at Clinton. I'm the girl who determinedly reminds people that Carter's presidency was good, in economic terms (i.e. he broke stagflation's back).

Try telling that to a lot of folks -- I sure as heck don't get a lot of atta-boys for that one!

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:02:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not PC around these parts (2.00 / 1)

Carter was good in some ways, sabotaged by the GOP in most.

That's my biggest fear, that Obama will be a second coming not of Clinton, but of Carter.

You have stated well and accurately that Obama has a very hard start, things are significantly worse for the next POTUS than they were when Bill took office.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:10:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sabotaged not just by the GOP (none / 0)

but by Tip O'Neil. ;-) Party Unity? What is that again?

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:14:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sabotaged not just by the GOP (2.00 / 1)

Yep, you are right, but we just can't get the PUMA folks and the naysayers to see that.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:20:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have no problem with Bill Clinton's record. (none / 0)

In fact, it shows that a Democratic president is always better than a GOP one. The only problem I've ever had was when Hillary tried to claim it as her own just because she had his last name.

But that's all over with and it's time to move on and get over what a few anonymous supporters said about this, that, or the other. In that regard, it is all in people's heads.

by Beren on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kos like Clinton haters? (2.00 / 0)

Boy you do need an education don't you?

by Grissom1001 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 11:31:42 PM EST

Very well said. The only thing I'd add is that (1.80 / 5)

Clinton told the people of this country exactly what he was going to do during the '92 campaign, i.e., that he would increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans. Or to use his exact words, "we are going to ask them to pay their fair share..." The "experts" at that time--sharpies like Bob Shrum--proclaimed that this was political suicide, given what had happened to Walter Mondale eight years earlier. Suffice it to say, it takes a talented politician to sell a program, and then to execute exactly what he/she promises.

This was one of many firsts in that campaign...e.g., no nominee had actually campaigned for the votes of gay people. Previous nominees gave us a wink and a nod; Clinton embraced us with the words, "we don't have a single person to waste". In any event, it's not exactly a "profile in courage" (sorry, Caroline) for Barack to have brought up tax increases when he was campaigning during the primary season; the Clintons already did that back in '92. Of course, he told John Harwood of CNBC two weeks ago that, "depending on circumstances, those tax increases may have to be deferred".

Depending on circumstances on the ground, troop withdrawals from Iraq may have to be delayed.

Depending on the economy, we may just leave NAFTA as it is..."my rhetoric got overheated".

Depending on the area of the country--rural vs. urban--handguns in every home may be just fine.

And FISA...and Faith-based...and all the rest of his bs.

Isn't the politics of hope just wonderful?

btw...today's Gallup: Obama 46%, McCain 44%

by BJJ Fighter on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:15:23 AM EST

Who ever disputed that? (none / 0)

Look, ready from day one Hillary ran a lousy campaign (in Iowa her efforts stunk up the place, she refused to take questions, was flat footed, never changed course when it was clearly not working) and only improved after she was too far down mathematically to do anything about it.

As an Edwards guy, twice, you have to give credit where its do and move on.

by IowaMike on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:57:26 AM EST

apparently pointing out (none / 0)

that Clinton deliberately distorted inflation (which diarist denies in the face of cited sources, some of which include noted economists), is enough to trigger such a rant.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll Rating Abuse as seen on this thread (none / 0)

has been reported to the management.

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:41:59 PM EST

Re: How Bill Clinton's Truths (1.00 / 3)

Random thoughts:

Why do people write "the fact that...." preceding what clearly is an opinion without any sort of references or backup material? Declaring your opinion fact doesn't make it any less of an opinion. And what relevance does Bill Clinton have anymore? Seems to me that presidents get too much credit when things go right with the economy and too much blame when they go wrong. I will never respect the man. He fucked an intern with a cigar in the White House when he was married, then lied about it. No matter what else he did, he's a poor excuse for a human being and a man. I guess I just can't separate the quality of the man from the quality of his political skills.

by bigdaddy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:14:57 PM EST

He was cleaner than anyone (none / 0)

who held th3e office of President, bar none.

And he allowed freedom of information and accountability.

contrast this with bush, and you might understand why Lakrosse wants to troll-rate you (abusively, i might add)

His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?

by RisingTide on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Like Hillary "murdering" Vince Foster (2.00 / 1)

Accusations that Bill Clinton's presidency was bad for the economy is the same fodder for right wing zealots.

Any Democrat who repeats these talking points should be ashamed.

by Betsy McCall on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:26:36 PM EST

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